6 comments

  • daishi55 2 minutes ago
    > many people are convinced that language models, or specifically chat-based language models, are intelligent. But there isn’t any mechanism inherent in large language models (LLMs) that would seem to enable this

    Seems like we can just stop reading here right? The author seems to have made up their mind that this very open question is closed, or at least they are not really interested in the question at all. Not sure why I would continue reading a blog based on this premise.

    Edit: oh I see, written in 2023. Well, I wonder if the author has updated their attitude towards this question? Indeed that would be the most interesting thing to know.

  • rahidz 1 hour ago
    Man I remember back when a psychic conned me by solving the Navier-Stokes problem.

    Also >July 4th, 2023

    • krupan 9 minutes ago
      The LLM did not solve it. It's not intelligent. Humans did, using a statistics-based computational tool (the LLM). We don't even know all the details of how the tool was used, we haven't been allowed to use the exact tool they used ourselves, we don't know much it really cost in dollars, energy, or time, etc. etc.
    • trescenzi 16 minutes ago
      LLMs can be supremely useful but also not intelligent. It might seem like a pointless distinction but the way we talk about these models matters because it impacts how we interact with and understand their outputs.

      For example if there’s a strongly held belief that models are independent intelligent entities we’re more likely to lay blame upon them instead of their user. It’s important for the safety discussion too. If they are a new class of life then safety is going to focus on making sure they don’t do bad things. If we instead see them as statistical models we will instead try to make sure people don’t misuse them.

      This distinction is even more important today when some of the most powerful people are looking to absolve their crimes by passing them off on their LLMs.

    • Angostura 51 minutes ago
      But were you successfully conned into believing an AI had solved the Navier-Stokes problem?
      • tescreal 48 minutes ago
        What is the consensus among experts?
        • grey-area 14 minutes ago
          That OpenAI stole the discovery from them.
          • daishi55 0 minutes ago
            That is very much not the consensus of experts.
        • 27388383 35 minutes ago
          [flagged]
    • inopinatus 28 minutes ago
      The more compelling inversion is whether the likes of John Nash, Richard Feynman, John Conway etc could’ve had a lucrative second career as conmen.
      • mistercow 10 minutes ago
        Feynman for sure could have. In fact, I think he sort of did, although I'm not sure he meant to. Multiple generations of nerds now have taken books of his anecdotes varying in plausibility and obvious exaggeration as some sort of weird physics cult of personality gospel. But I don't think he was really setting out to curate his legacy so much as he was a good storyteller and he liked to entertain.

        But could he have conned people on purpose? Absolutely.

      • atemerev 19 minutes ago
        von Neumann could. The others, I doubt it.
    • rusk 1 hour ago
      Did an AI do that on its own though? I heard it was human mathematicians using a sophisticated machine as a tool.
      • meowface 47 minutes ago
        All of the latest big proofs were driven by professional human mathematicians steering and priming the models, yes.

        All of the best AI-made software projects are also driven by experienced human software developers steering and priming the models. Does that mean the projects "aren't made by AI"?

        No, it just means AI is not quite good enough yet to fully replace humans, and, so, unsurprisingly, the best results will be obtained from people who are already great at a field and who take the time to squeeze as much force multiplication out of LLMs as possible. The AI is still doing well over 95% of the significant work.

        • TomGarden 39 minutes ago
          While I agree with you, I think we also have to concede that this is not how these accomplishments have been presented. I'd argue most people I've seen talk about this online are unaware of the mathematicians steering the models.
        • basch 35 minutes ago
          “Good enough to replace humans” isn’t necessarily the benchmark.

          The question is is a computer with a human stronger than a computer without a human. At what point does the hybrid go from being stronger, to the human getting in the way, or steering the computer in more wrong directions that right ones, or the human not being able to keep up. Does the human add enough extra randomness to be of value for a while, even as a minor co-processor.

      • broast 18 minutes ago
        The way frontier models work, that loop will get compressed to a one-shot within a version or two
      • mstank 58 minutes ago
        It sounds like LLMs were pretty useful to them…
        • ModernMech 39 minutes ago
          So was Lean. Did Lean solve it?
          • zamadatix 15 minutes ago
            Nothing is solved in isolation but credit usually goes to wherever the new work in the paper comes from instead of the whole mountain of previous mathematics or existing tools used. The most relevant of those get referenced and then this reference tree builds a tree of collective base work needed across history.
  • aetherspawn 16 minutes ago
    Stay the hell away from spooky stuff like psychics and tarot readers - the more you don’t believe in it, the better.

    But better again that you do believe, and know that these are not harmless fun, but that there are dark and hidden and evil things in this world to stay away from.

  • mstank 1 hour ago
    This is a strange newsletter post. It’s harping against AI but seems AI-written itself.

    Its ultimate conclusion:

    “I’ve come to the conclusion that a language model is almost always the wrong tool for the job.

    I strongly advise against integrating an LLM or chatbot into your product, website, or organisational processes.”

    Seems so obviously biased that I can only understand it with the context that the writer is trying to sell their book for €35

    • mstank 51 minutes ago
      Just realized this was written in 2023. Can’t believe how wrong we were about AI back then.
      • JoshTriplett 47 minutes ago
        Can't believe how right we were, too.
    • ryuuseijin 51 minutes ago
      The post makes sense for 2023. Today, not so much.

      Also, definitely not AI written if the date is accurate.

  • atemerev 1 hour ago
    All of this is accurate (and useful). But yeah, psychics do not prove theorems from frontier math and build working complex software.
    • krupan 6 minutes ago
      Neither do LLMs. Humans using them do. Similar to how cops solve crimes using psychics.
    • igortg 31 minutes ago
      On one side I agree that LLMs and Agents are not intelligent, but they present an illusion of intelligence given the shear amount of data they can process and act upon.

      But that cannot be used to discredit the fact that these are incredibly powerful tools that can get out of control and cause great damage.

      • atemerev 26 minutes ago
        What is "intelligence" then. I think the universalism of LLMs is now evident enough that they can be considered "intelligent", even in slightly different realization compared to humans.

        As of "great damage", I doubt it. They do not have self-preservation instinct (all "worrying" experiments are the attempts to initiate something resembling self-preservation from human initiative). The driving part is external - the query loop can always be turned off. So yes, a dangerous tool that can be exploited by humans (including governments, especially governments - which is why I am skeptical to government regulation proposals, particularly looking at what passes as governments in this era). But there are no inherent dangers from their own agency, as there is none.

    • Madmallard 6 minutes ago
      Neither does LLMs. Not without a monumental amount of human oversight and expertise.

      Everyone not in a particular field asking LLM about said field is rolling bad dice.

    • cmiles74 27 minutes ago
      In my opinion, this article is talking about people who get into long conversations and become convinced the model is “intelligent”, maybe even “AGI”. This seems to be a trap people are falling into, even in 2026.
      • krupan 2 minutes ago
        It's definitely talking about that, but it's also talking about all of us:

        - fawning over how amazing these tools are

        - believing everything OpenAI and Anthropic say about how powerful and dangerous their product is

        - minimizing the amount of human effort and involvement in every "AI" achievement

      • atemerev 23 minutes ago
        Initial definitions of AGI (as of 2014) are long surpassed. Then, AGI was defined as something that is general enough to work in many fields and orient themselves. It did not include being smarter than humans or even having comparable intelligence to humans. By original standards, we have AGI already for some time.

        Current AGI definitions are intentionally vague.